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Grief is not enough; a true unity among us is based on a proper theology
by Hanna Katanacho at 2008-12-30 02:08:59 | Dear Rev. Israel:
The issue is the bloodshed of innocent people. Can we agree that it is against God's will to spill the blood of innocent children? Are you willing to state that you condemn the spilling of the blood of innocent children in Gaza? If you are then please do say that clearly! I did not read your condemnation. As for me, I stated and state again that I am against spilling the blood of innocent citizens in Ashdod and other Israeli places. This is a political as well as a theological position. Sometimes the separation between politics and theology is artificial; read more about theopolitics. I am simply stating that it is wrong to kill innocent children and in this case the children of Gaza. But sadly I am not hearing your agreement.
Last, my brother: it is because I love you and am willing to expose my thought before you that I have written this letter, for I believe a proper unity is based on a proper theology. Unless we condemn evil in all of its forms whether against Arabs or Jews our unity will be superficial. I clearly condemned killing innocent citizens but what about you? |
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
- Your words spin a tale by Israel, at 2008-12-30 05:36:15
Innocent people? Are you innocent? Am I innocent? When they came to Jesus asking him about the innocent people that were killed his response was that none of us is innocent. I think what you want to say is the killing of civilians that have nothing to do with the Hammas and other terrorists. If that what you mean, then I can trully say that off course I condem killing of inocent people, I do not know any believer that condones that.
Do not tell me that all you said was that you wanted people to condem killing of inocent people, that is not what you said. You called my son and my friends' sons, people with blood on their hands. Your statements reveal your heart, and your reference to us as people with blood on our hands is valid for you as well, we all have blood on our hands, the blood of the real innocent Son of God. look in the mirror.
When you say that true unity is based on a proper theology it sounds so great, that is if you would have meant the salvation by grace ONLY through the death of the Son of God, fully human, fully God, on the cross.
But what you really say is something else. What you are actually saying is that our unity is depended on our view of what is happening in Gaza. I quote you: "Will your relationship with the prince of peace make your response different from the Israeli army in Gaza? If not then how will you look me in the eyes next time we meet and shake my hands while the hands of your army are still wet with the blood of my people!?"
I do not support the shading of innocent blood! I do support the actions of our army in Gaza as it tries to stop the murderers of Hammas from Killing our innocent people. They are also the ones that murdered Ranni from the BS, or have you forgot? I do not know of any other army in the world that calls civilians that live in a house where the enamy has placed weapons and tell them to leave the house because they are going to bomb it. The Israeli army does. We do not want to kill civilians and we do not TRY to kill civilians. I am sorry that people that have nothing to do with them get killed. It breaks my heart! But the option of NOT resisting and fighting evil is even worse and IS NOT biblical. If we will not fight evil because people that are not involved may get hurt we will not stop murderers, thives and many other criminals. We will not have police, laws or justice. We will not have life.
If we seek unity on the base of theology that is other then the basics of our faith, we become secterians. Do we not have unity with people that baptize babies? Speak in tounges (or not)? In fact we probably will not have unity even with our wives as they may understand a verse or two a bit different then us.
I do not think you are bold or sharing your heart, I think you are angry, bitter, and hurt. I am really sorry that you are that way and I do ask you to forgive me and any of my people that has hurted you.
May you experience the joy and peace of God!
Israel Harel- Fight Evil with Good, not with evil. by Hanna, at 2008-12-30 07:06:12
Dear Israel:
There is a difference between sinners from a hamartiological point of view and between innocence from an ethical or legal point of view. I think that you are mixing between the two.
Every human being is a sinner by nature but not all us are going to be put in a human prison because we are sinner. Innocence is the absence of the guilt of disloyalty to God's standards. See for example Matt 27: 3, 24 (see also Num 5: 19, 31). The babies of Gaza are sinners by nature but are innocent and don't deserve to be punished with bloodshed.
My dear brother: Yes the Palestinians have blood on their hands and may God have mercy on us. I weep before him for his mercy. We have sinned against God as a nation several times.
But remember that we are not competing who is more sinful than the other. Otherwise, every sermon preached can be rejected saying that the preacher is a sinner. The question at hand is: Is the excessive killing of innocent children in Gaza acceptable to you? It seems that your answer is yes. I am so sad to hear that. Further my heart is broken when I hear you justifying your view from the Bible. No one said that we should not fight evil but remember that we don't fight evil with evil. We fight evil with good. Tell the children of Gaza that the Israeli army killed their brothers and sisters because you are fighting evil. As for me I will tell them that Christ put his life to grant them life. Wars are not the best path for revealing the love of God.
Last, my brother notice that I am always calling you a brother in Christ. I understand that defining our membership in faith is not dependant on marginal doctrinal or ethical issues; nevertheless there are indispensible cognitive and behavioral content to faith. I am sure that such elements distinguish us from heresies. In my letter or responses I have never, not even once, questioned your faith but challenged your perception that is related to Gaza. I never attacked you personally but tried to dialogue with your belief system. On the other hand, because I disagree with you, you think that I am bitter. I want to assure you that I truly love you and I am angry against sin and not against you. I pray that the Lord will bless you and grant you the theological vision that of divine love and complete respect even when we disagree. - You do accuse me wrongly. by Israel Harel, at 2008-12-31 06:53:11
Dear Hanna,
I was contemplating if I should continue this discussion since it causes me much grief.
I will say a couple of things.
1. You did accuse me, my son, my friends and their sons of having blood on our hands. You cannot escape that.
2. I do not agree with killing of people that are not fighters, and great efforts should be made not to. Not fighting is not always the option.
3. You confuse our role as Believrs in the society and neighborhood of not fighting evil with evil, with the role of governments that hold the sword. It is the role of a government to protect its people and if needs to be to do it by force.
4. God is not a pacifist, He is the Lord of Armies (Hosts) and he fight and will fight against satan. The people that aline themselves with satan will recieve his punishment; eternal fire.
5. Unlike you, I do not expect a sinful governement (any) in this world to behave as christians. They are not.
6. As Arab and Jewish believers we have more in common then what seperate us. We have the Mesiah and His redemption. Your insistence on emphesising what seperates us rather then what unites us is very sad and causes a lot of pain to a lot of people.
May God have mercy on us all.
Israel harel
- Wake up to spiritual reality by Jacob, at 2008-12-30 05:50:58
Bro Hanna,
You seem to think you have reached the pinnacle of courage and morality by univerally condemning the killing of innocent children and implying that Israel Harel can't quite match up. Sorry, Hanna, but even Vladimir Putin could say "amen" to your righteous stand.
Certainly war always has awful consequences. Consider all the innocents killed by the Allied bombing of Nazi Germany. But spiritual maturity based on knowing the God of the Bible requires something more--spiritual discernment of spiritual realites operating behind the scenes. If God is grieved over the death of the wicked how much more is He grieved over the innocent! But He has not come down and made war impossible. In fact, the Bible clearly tells us that even war becomes an instrument in God's hand to move men to repentance and accomplish His purposes.
Yes war is terrible. But so are earthquakes. Everyone knows this. It is all the more terrible when innocent children are the victims. And we all weep. But here Hamas has for years been shooting at and traumatizing innocent Israeli children while hiding behind their own and their people's. They have murdered a Palestinian evangelist and driven out the local evangelical witness as much as possible. The people of Gaza are imprisoned and oppressed by them. It is a terrible price to pay but who will set them free? Maybe, in allowing this awful thing to happen, God cares much more about the people of Gaza than you do or are willing to take a stand against unrighteousness for. If you did not want this to happen, perhaps you should have been doing much more to stop what has provoked it--something even Muslim Abbas is willing to identify. The blame here should be squarely on Hamas and all who support them--not on Messianic believers whose sons also may die to set the Gazans free. God's thoughts are not of human origin and condemning the death of innocents does not give a monopoly on knowing His ways or His heart.
Your letter grieves me
by I agree with Rev Israel Harel at 2008-12-30 09:53:33 | It is a well known fact that Bethleham Bible College is anti-Israel. As said Yohanna makes no mention of Hamas or the terrible things that have been going on in Bethleham. It is no more a Christian town - why is that? It used to be! Then why hasn't he mentioned the terrible killing of that young Christain man in the Bible shop in Gaza who left behind a young family! Where have you been?? As usual blame Israel. If you blessed Israel Bethleham would be Christain again and you would be able to share your faith more freely but instead you choose to honour Islam.
May the Lord have mercy on your soul.
Shalom
Anne |
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
- reply to Anne by elias tannous, at 2008-12-30 15:38:32
"It is a well known fact that Bethleham Bible College is anti-Israel" please show us the facts because if you don`t have any you are sinning against a bible college that teaches many pastors and servants of the Lord. And about the christian man who was killed in gaza in the bible shop i can point you to a sermon on the net where Rev. Hanna speaks at length about Rami the young man killed in Gaza. I don`t agree with your accusations , Bethleham Bible College and Rev. Hanna do not honour islam but they do honour muslims which all of us should do.
p.s. i`m ready to provide the link for the sermon when you ask for it.- Shalom Elias by Israel, at 2009-01-01 00:53:59
When I was in the US I heard Bishara Awad on the Radio and he was very strongly anti Israel. This is not the College, I know.- What do you mean by anti Israel? by Pierre Tannous, at 2009-01-01 14:36:03
Dear brother Israel,
Please clarify what do you mean by "anti Israel".
does it mean that he is not pro Israel as much as you want him to be?
How does one sound "strongly anti Israel"?
I'm not trying to be picky here, but I think this is something that needs to be clarified. because, for example, for some pro-Palestine means anti-Israel.
Blessings,
Pierre- Dear brother by Israel, at 2009-01-08 06:28:10
What I have heard brother Bishara say was to condem Israel very strongly and justify the terrorists that attacked Israel while presenting the PLO government as perfect and Yassar Arafat as the sevior. It was in the time when Israel was serrounding the Nativity Church in Bethlehem with the terrorists inside.
While I myself condem many of the things the Israeli government does, presenting Israel as all bad, justifying the terrorists and presenting the PLO government as so good (while we all know of the corruption that lead to their lose in the elections), to me is a very strong anti Israel stand.
Israeli governement is lead by sinners and so is the PLO government. Yassar Arafat was not the messiah.
I love brother Bishara, I apreciate him, and I command his courage in his retirment and passing on the leadership of the college. I know his political stand and it never intefered with our fellowship and my love and appreciation of him.
Many blessings,
Israel
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