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History is not Predetermined
by Hanna Katanacho at 2008-12-30 01:11:40 | Thank you Howard for your response. I am truly glad that you are a follower of our Messiah and a brave person who rightly insists on our missiological calling. You are also a person who is willing to build bridges of peace.
I have a question for you: Do you think that God want us to have peace only in our hearts and in the church? Or does God want us to actively participate in spreading the comprehensive peace of God?
Further, I am not sure what you mean by writting off "the truth that Jesus Christ will again come in the flesh to judge your people, and mine, ..." I surely assret the second coming of Christ but I don't subscribe to a vision of a predetermined history in which we justify bloodshed because of satanic activities. Brother: the blood of Arabs and Jews are our responsibility before God. We are not only citizines of heaven; we are also citizens of earth.
Moreover, tt seems to me that the issue is not just a cognitive disagreement; it is an issue of identity. A follower of Christ is a person who is full of mercy, compassion, justice, peace, and love. Let me be blunt, if our eschatology is merciless then we will become a people who lack mercy especially if we make such eschatoloty our defining feature. I am glad that your thoughts are centered on the Messiah and I truly hope that His mercy, love, justice, and peace will empower your congregation and mine for I pray that all of us will become like Him. Last, I remind you that salvation is not being saved from a wicked physical world but it entails a divine transformation of a fallen world, our world. This transformation starts now not after we die. We are tools in God's hands in extending His Kingdom, a kingdom of salvation not only for the individual but also for the communities. The biblical concept of salvation is no doubt more than regeneration even though it entails it.
Brother: We must stand against any institutionalized evil and injustice. It is our moral responsibility before God. I want to meet you but I also want to see both of our hands fighting injustices among Jews and Arabs. We fight evil with Good. We fight lies with truth. We fight hatred with love. We fight killing by preserving life. Let us fast and pray, write common statements, and formulate a contextual theology that honors the lord of peace in a land of war.
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[ Reply to This | Parent ]
- The Blessed Hope by Howard, at 2008-12-30 03:25:22
Hanna, God's pre-determined plan for Jesus to come again personally and take up the throne in and over Israel and the nations IS the hope for our people and nations...nothing short of this.
Messiah is not divided: we can not parcel our theologies based on a particular piece of the Rock. The only true knowledge of God is what He says of Himself and what, therefore, the Holy Spirit makes known to us through the Word of God.
The world under the kingdoms of the world will remain opposed to the righteous Kingdom of God which the Lord Jesus Christ alone will bring. Until then, yes, preach the gospel; do good to all men, especially to those of the household of faith; be light in a dark world; be salt which helps bring painful healing, but which also preserves the covenants which Yeshua Himself asserted will be fulfilled in their entirety -- both on this Earth and in the new heavens and new Earth when that 'time' comes.
You state in another article of yours about Bethlehem that, "Bethlehem is compared to Zion. The latter was entrusted with a cosmic vision in which chaos comes to an end and peace dominates the world (Mic 4: 1-5). Zion and its people failed to accomplish this vision. Consequently, humanity's hope for divine peace collapsed. They will not see the end of the tunnel of their sins and condemnation. The Hebrew text employs the repetition of the word "now" (עתה) to express this depressing reality (Mic 4: 9, 11, 14 [English 5:1])."
Thank God that this is NOT TRUE, Hanna! Otherwise there is no hope for anyone, not to mention any people or nation. Just as you and I were saved from our sins and given forgiveness and the realization of God's grace reigning through HIS righteousness -- and living in the new relationship of sons to our Father in Heaven -- so, too, will YHVH God save the full remnant of His chosen nation Israel by grace, when those in His great mercy see Him whom they have pierced in our rebellion and hatred of Him.
Hanna, as a non-Jewish Christian, the Lord has entrusted you with a special commission to provoke Israel/the Jewish people to jealousy, while at the same time showing mercy to them. As it is written (and the Scriptures cannot be broken), "Concerning the gospel they are enemies for YOUR sake, but concerning the election, they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, even so these also have now been disobedient, THAT THROUGH THE MERCY SHOWN TO YOU THEY ALSO MAY OBTAIN MERCY. For God has committed them all (Gentiles and Jews) to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all."
Does your correct insistence on a 'proper theology' include this, not for individuals only, but also for nations?
The same prophets of YHVH, and the same apostles of the Lord and Messiah Jesus, who spoke to Israel also spoke to some very other significant nations and peoples in our region. Heaven and Earth will pass away, but the Word of God abides forever: it will not be changed; it is we who must repent and be changed and healed, reconciled to God in all matters. Jesus is the Head of the Church in ALL things. Praise God!
- We are a letter Written by the Blood of Christ not the blood of the children of Gaza. by Hanna, at 2008-12-30 05:07:32
Dear Howard:
I am glad that you are boldly addressing important theological issues. It seems to me that you agree that our differences are not only political but also theological. This is a good starting point. It seems to me that we have different understandings of:
1. The relationship between culture and faith.
2. Epistemology and Hermeneutics. Although there is absolute truth, no one can claim %100 ability to know it fully. Thus we need to listen to each other and do theology in a community allowing different perspectives to interact with other. Otherwise, you will quickly dismiss me even though I truly believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God and seek to live according to its standards.
3. We have a different understanding of "Israel", "the chosen nation", eschatology, and God's plan. I assert that God's plan is rooted in the Christ not in Israel.
4. Fourth we have a different understanding of the promises. Read my essay Christ is the Owner of Haaretz published in Christian Scholar's Review 2005.
In addition, I assure you that I love all Israelis from all backgrounds and I want them to be saved and to know Jesus Christ just like any other nation. They can join the church.
Last, I am smiling how a simple challenge to condemn the killing of innocent people is creating all this theological discussion. I hope that our different theological positions will not be used as an excuse to overlook injustices or ignore practicing mercy and love towards the childern of Gaza who need someone to speak on their behalf.
Howard: I will be glad to coordinate with you a theological conference in which both of our communities deal with our differences aiming at stating what we agree upon and we differ on. But I urge you to clearly and strongly condemn killing innocent children.
I appreciate your boldness and honesty and challenge you to express your beliefs as well as to listen to what God might be saying through your Palestinian brother. I continue to challenge the Messianic community as well as the Arab Christian community to contemplate the meaning of Biblical Mercy in the midst of war. WE must be different in our standards of righteousness for we are the letter of God to a fallen world. It is a letter written by the blood of Christ not by the blood of the children of Gaza.
- Israel and the Church by Howard, at 2008-12-30 07:39:58
I, too, smile, Hanna at how our Father loves us both despite that we hold completely opposing viewpoints from our agreement that God's plan is rooted -- and also, I might add, flourishes -- in Christ. We have much to be thankful for that He is like He is and not like us!
Hanna, there is NO comparison between Israel's general policy (and I say this as one who knows how Israel acts towards those who believe in Yeshua) of trying its best as much as possible to avoid killing in military actions 'innocent' civilians not engaged in the battle (which is not always easy to tell anyway) versus Hamas' and Hisbollah's and other Muslim terrorist groups who DELIBERATELY target 'innocent' civilians. From a Biblical point of view, one is not innocent if, in their heart, they agree with those who do evil. Biblically also, we are to submit to the civil governments under which we live and to pray for those in authority. The Holy Spirit NEVER teaches us to rebel or overthrow; if we resist because of standing against what we believe is evil, then we must also be willing to pay the price for coming against the ruling authorities. God can use even that for His glory.
It is one of the double honors, perhaps, that I happen to belong at present to both Israel and to the Church (the Body of Messiah). But, God helping, when it comes time for the Son of God to gather to Himself all that are His at the first resurrection and rapture (which I believe will be near the end), I am going up! And with Christ, my Lord and Husband even, I will be part of that great multitude of the first-born in Him to rule and reign with Him over Israel and the nations. What a privilege we have to be part of His righteous government. The Church is not Israel, nor is Israel the Church. The Church is a different and transcendant priesthood.
In the meantime, let us do what the Lord has given to each of us to do until He comes. Sadly, many more "innocent" people will die in one way or another, despite the truth that Jesus has already won the war on the cross. This is our message to those who have not heard in the world as it becomes more and more desolate: we are ambassadors of another Kingdom and of another King, who gives His peace to those who believe in Him with thankful hearts.- The Christian and War by Howard, at 2008-12-30 12:12:38
I found this site, which does a very good study of war and the believer:
allanturner.com/War.pdf
I've often wondered what it would be like if all the believers in the Middle East countries would not take up arms, what effect that may have. But since that is not the case, maybe God has other ways to deal with the 'state of things' in this present evil world to deter evil-doers.
Fighting Against God
by Tanas at 2009-01-06 09:57:08 | Dear Howard,
My brother we know each other for a long time and I am really surprised to hear you say that "s long as our Palestinian/Arab brothers over-sympathize with the Islamic agenda to wipe out Israel" because that is not fully true, Hamas did say that if Israel will go back to the 67 borders then we can talk peace, but Israel did not want to go back. Also in the Israeli parelemnt there are many groups who beleive that even Israeli Palestinian shoudl be kicked out of the country so that Israel will be Jewish State only, that was the latest statement of your Foriegen Ministry Livni. I think we need to stop that hate towards Mulsim and pray for their salavation, the same as some of the Jewish fundematist who also beleive of wiping the palestinian of the map. And again, let us not forget the OCCUPATION which is the real reason behind all this blood shed.
Please no, that is not about us fighting ecah other, but about Justice and Human Rights. About us, the Children of God being peace maker and standing up against violence and injustice.
In Him,
Tanas |
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
- God is Just by Howard, at 2009-01-06 10:58:17
Hi Tanas,
We are in agreement, Tanas, about standing up against violence and injustice. But we may disagree if we each look at it from a different perspective. That is why our unity is in Messiah alone, who died for us even though we were (and sometimes still seem to be) ungodly and enemies of God.
It is clear that we do not agree about the occupation and the reasons behind all the bloodshed. But we both agree that the situation is not just and terrible.
I do not justify Israel in all she does, because God Himself makes it very clear that Israel is not righteous. As a legitimate sovereign state, I do justify the government's moral obligation to protect all of its citizenry and inhabitants, especially those who are not criminals or enemies, whether they be Jewish, Arab, or other nationalities.
What I do try to do is 'justify God' (Ps 51:4 Eng): He is just; He is right; He alone is good. We are redeemed sinners, unworthy of such hope that He has given us through our common salvation in Yeshua/Isua/Jesus. He has made covenants, and He will keep them according to His righteous ways. We do not often understand the ways He goes about His business, nor His time and timing.
YHVH God will judge and punish the guilty -- whoever they are -- but He will save many from all peoples. It is my prayer and hope that many Gazans and Israelis and others will turn towards the only true God and Savior through this war and its consequences.
God will also save His chosen nation Israel AS a nation, because He is both faithful and just. It will cause many of us much hardship while He carries His purpose through till He accomplishes it. May the Lord be merciful to all His children to enable us by the power of the Holy Spirit to remain faithful to Him and His covenants. He cannot and will not deny Himself just to please us; it is we who must deny ourselves, pick up our cross, and follow Jesus in order to please Him.
I thank God for you, Tanas, and appreciate some of the anguish and frustration you feel. You are not alone; we are in it together. Perplexed, but not unto despair!
Your brother,
Howard
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